Hybridization of Two Spiking Agaves?

[bigdaddyscondition]

I got some advice from a pest management expert at a local nursery. He advised dusting the surface of the potting soil with Captan and spraying it with water so the powder wouldn't cake and harden.

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[Gee.S]

Not an issue here in central AZ (on uncovered containers), but I have heard of folks adding a little H₂O₂ to the water to manage fungus.

[bigdaddyscondition]

Not an issue here in central AZ (on uncovered containers), but I have heard of folks adding a little H₂O₂ to the water to manage fungus.

Good to know, I'll try that if Captan doesn't work out. I have used H₂O₂ as a soil drench in potted plants for fungus gnats, to great effect.

[bigdaddyscondition]

OK, here's an update on my original post here--seeds from the Agave victoriae reginae that may have hybridized with the A. parryi truncata a few feet away. After multiple failed attempts to get seedlings to grow beyond a few millimeters, in June I took a handful of seeds and sowed them along a patch of empty elevated flower bed (see three photos). This area has a gradient of sun exposure from full sun at dawn to shade after about 1 p.m. The seedlings have thrived along most of the sun exposure gradient.

The seedlings are far enough along that I'm seeing marginal teeth. I suppose it's too early to tell, but could the teeth be an indication that these are hybrids? A. victoriae reginae leaves, of course, have no marginal teeth.

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[Gee.S]

I can think of a few different spineless agaves, which do sport marginals when very young. Sharkskins, for example.

[agavegreg]

Very young seedlings of Ag. victoriae-reginae will have teeth along the leaf margins and then lose then as the plants get bigger. That said, those teeth look larger than what I have seen on A. victoriae-reginae seedlings.

[bigdaddyscondition]

Here's an update on seeds I sowed last June (2023) from the Agave victoriae reginae that may have hybridized with the A. parryi truncata a few feet away. Spring temperatures here in the Inland Empire are now creeping up to 60s and 70s daytime and upper 40s and 50s nighttime lows. So, this novice has a couple of questions:

1) when can I expect the seedlings to sprout more leaves, rounding out the rosette?

2) Is it true, as I've been told, that they can be potted when they grow enough leaves to form a rounded rosette?

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[agavegreg]

I would wait until there are at least 5-6 leaves before transplanting.

[bigdaddyscondition]

I would wait until there are at least 5-6 leaves before transplanting.

And what's the timeline here? Would that happen this summer? Both the Queen Vic and the A. parryi seem to be slow growers, in my experience anyway.

[Melt in the Sun]

Possibly summer, possibly fall, hard to say. I'd expect them to pick up the pace as it warms up. That's a cool little carpet you have going!

[Gafoto]

I would guess they won’t all die if you transplant them now but they’ll be happier in late spring or fall. You could always dig a couple up to see how they handle it. Looks like you have more than a few to spare!

[nsp88]

I would wait until there are at least 5-6 leaves before transplanting.

Oh no. I planted a bunch way too closely, if that is the case... They are already tight with just the third leaf coming in.

[bigdaddyscondition]

I would wait until there are at least 5-6 leaves before transplanting.

Oh no. I planted a bunch way too closely, if that is the case... They are already tight with just the third leaf coming in.

Yeah. I describe how that came about with my planting back in my October 26, 2023 comment on this thread: "After multiple failed attempts to get seedlings to grow beyond a few millimeters, in June [2023] I took a handful of seeds and sowed them along a patch of empty elevated flower bed..."

I'll just see what happens over the summer. It's like watching paint dry, but more fun.

[agavegreg]

I would wait until there are at least 5-6 leaves before transplanting.

Oh no. I planted a bunch way too closely, if that is the case... They are already tight with just the third leaf coming in.

They will be fine.

[Gafoto]

I would wait until there are at least 5-6 leaves before transplanting.

Oh no. I planted a bunch way too closely, if that is the case... They are already tight with just the third leaf coming in.

I’ve often got over a dozen plants smushed into 2.5” pots. I usually upgrade them to a 4” pot after they get the soil nice and well bound and then finally split them out to their own pots. I think some folks skip straight to sowing in larger pots which is probably easier but I’m tight on growing space so it’s a constant shell game for me. They like to be a little squished, they grow faster as a gang.

[nsp88]

I’ve often got over a dozen plants smushed into 2.5” pots. I usually upgrade them to a 4” pot after they get the soil nice and well bound and then finally split them out to their own pots. I think some folks skip straight to sowing in larger pots which is probably easier but I’m tight on growing space so it’s a constant shell game for me. They like to be a little squished, they grow faster as a gang.

After the havardianas had such a low germination rate, the next seeds I started I threw super close together and almost all of them started. Now it is cram packed.

[Gafoto]

I’ve often got over a dozen plants smushed into 2.5” pots. I usually upgrade them to a 4” pot after they get the soil nice and well bound and then finally split them out to their own pots. I think some folks skip straight to sowing in larger pots which is probably easier but I’m tight on growing space so it’s a constant shell game for me. They like to be a little squished, they grow faster as a gang.

After the havardianas had such a low germination rate, the next seeds I started I threw super close together and almost all of them started. Now it is cram packed.

You can always cull a few or just let them go. Depends on how patient you are. I sowed some chrysantha that I swear had a 150% germination rate and they’re a bit slow since they’re so slammed in there. Probably 30+ plants in a single 2.5” pots. I pulled some off the sides to make room.

There is a kind of ideal density where they grow quickly but don’t get too squished. Usually about 10 plants or so in a 2.5” pot for me.

[nsp88]

I sowed some chrysantha that I swear had a 150% germination rate

Funny you mentioned that because the two that are most crowded of mine are chrysantha and gracilipes that I swear each had like 100% success rate

[Papahuel]

Thanks for the updates.

For me unfortunately parryi has turned out not to be a great performer, initially it's germination was far and away the best, highest percentage, quickest initial growth, then an absolute standstill, similar to your hybrids.

In terms of planting density how you have them is totally fine for a fair while longer (years), however the lack of sun may now be slowing them down.

[bigdaddyscondition]

Here's an update on seeds I sowed 14 months ago in June 2023 from the Agave victoriae reginae that may have hybridized with the A. parryi truncata a few feet away. I'm still not sure whether these seedlings (seeds came from the vic reg flower stalk) are hybrids with the parryi. From their looks, they could still be just vic reg, which is fine with me.

Following Greg's advice above (post #33), it looks as though I could start potting some of these seedlings, yes? Or should I wait until cooler temps in the fall?

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[Fletch]

Really nice growing with the seedlings, I would love to see a Vic Reg x Ovatifolia but they all look like plain Vic Reg seedlings to me these always germinate really well for me and it looks to have been the same case for you.
My advice with the transplanting process, I think the majority are still too young to transplant in my opinion. It will be difficult to take these out of the ground without damaging most of their fragile root system especially those in the really crowded areas, and with more damage to the roots the longer it will take for them to recover and continue growing. They all look really healthy where they are.

However, as you have alot to work with it wouldn't be a bad idea to just take some of larger and less crowded ones out of the ground and put into pots as they will have the best chance of survival and I think will do just fine. In those areas of seedlings that are really crowded I would thin them out to allow more room for growth will make your life easier later on, unless you want to keep them all that is

As an example below photo of my vic reg seedlings. I will be transplanting soon looking very similar to yours the ones with more leaves and are starting to form thicker margins at the center with more mature leaves coming through. These pots contained many more seedlings (up to 40) but have been thinning them out as they've grown to allow more growth space. Also I will note these were grown under led lights so a bit bigger for their age (sown November 23). I have no trouble transitioning my agave to outdoors albeit done slowly with shade cloth this really speeds up the overall growth process. Ideally I would have these under lights for another 3-4months before transplanting but unfortunately I'm very limited with space and having them growing in community pots leaves me no choice but to get them out sooner but I'm confident they will do just fine.

[bigdaddyscondition]

Fletch, thank you for your experienced advice. Sounds right on the money.

[Gafoto]

It may be worth plucking some and bringing them into a more ideal growing situation and their own pots just so you aren’t trying to wrangle 100 plants all developing at the same rate.

[MJP]

"I would love to see Agave victoriae-reginae x ovatifolia."

This cross was made at Plant Delights Nursery some years ago.

Agave Prince of Whales

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It would be nice if even one of the many seedlings here (of this thread which I have slightly hijacked) proves to be Agave Victorian-reginae x parryi.

Agave victoriae-reginae is dominant in all crosses. That is to say that its characteristics (especially size and shape of leaf) predominate, especially at the early stages of its life. Still, some blue/gray color in a seedling would be suggestive that the hybridization occurred.

[bigdaddyscondition]

"Prince of Whales." I like that.

MJP, now that you mention it, I've zoomed in on an outlier (below) in my mass sowing. This is actually a seedling that I found growing right under the parryi truncata flower stalk after it had shed its seeds, most of which were chaff. I was weeding at the time and immediately discovered I had ripped an agave seedling from the ground. I applied rooting hormone and plunked it down in the bed of seedlings in the flower box, and it immediately began to grow to what you see here. Look closely at the center of the middle patch in the flower box photo in my original post and you'll see another one just like it. That one was mixed in with all the other seeds from the vic reg flower stalk. Both are most likely straight up A. parryi truncata seedlings from the parent plant, but I'm going to keep the two until I know it's not a hybrid seeded from the vic reg flower stalk.

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