Geminiflora vs Geminiflora?

[funkmaster]

Last summer, I purchased an agave geminiflora from a local nursery in Orlando. It is quite reputable, and I trust their naming of the plant. It has leaves that are almost tubular in shape, flexible, and long. You can see from the picture below, the lower leaves almost sag and spill over and down the sides of the pot. I have heard of geminiflora plants with the variety name of "Spaghetti Strap" and this is what the leaves remind me of - spaghetti.

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Then yesterday, at the same nursery, I found some more agave geminiflora plants. These were very different than the first ones I got. These had shorter, flatter, wider leaves that were more rigid. The leaves also had a lot more white, curly hairs. I asked at the nursery, and was told that these definitely were geminiflora, but I am wondering if both of these are the same. See image below.

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Thanks in advance for the figuring of this out!

[Gee.S]

Check my article here: Broad Strokes of Agave Variability

[funkmaster]

Thanks for the direct. I had read that before, and found it most interesting. I appreciate the subtle and not so subtle differences between the same species of agave that may have existed in separate locations in the wild so that they don't really look like the same plant. I have about 8 different agave utahensis eborispina where only 2 look like the same plant. All of them have different spines, thickness of leaves, and overall shape.

I understand that the plants could be very variable and yet still be considered the same species, but I was wondering if the second plant could be considered something like agave filifera, but with very narrow leaves. I just cannot tell from various pictures what the limits of the leaf variability of geminiflora are (short vs long, rigid vs lax, wide vs thin, etc.) to know if these are both geminiflora or one is geminiflora and one is something else that is so different from its norm that it was mis-identified as geminiflora.

[Gee.S]

Oh sorry, now I've taken a better look. You second snap is A. ×leopoldii.

[funkmaster]

Wow, leopoldii! Didn't consider that. I was looking through my collection at lunch before posting trying to find something that looked like this plant, and didn't put it as leopoldii. I have 4 different leopoldii plants, and none are very large (4-6 inches across). They also have much more cone shaped in their leaf-spread, and don't have any leaves sticking out at low angles or horizontally. When I get home this evening, I will have to look at them closer and compare. But from the online gallery, it is a spot-on match! I think I will call the nursery and tell them to take a look at those names again.

Just to be sure, you still think the first pic is of a geminiflora, right?

[Gee.S]

The curly-q filifers are a tell. And yes, the first snap is geminiflora.

[agavegreg]

Are the leaves on the plant in the second pic flexible or stiff? If they are stiff, then that would be A. multifilifera. The leaves are much to long to be A. 'Leopoldii'.

[Gee.S]

Are the leaves on the plant in the second pic flexible or stiff? If they are stiff, then that would be A. multifilifera. The leaves are much to long to be A. 'Leopoldii'.

Wait. How can you tell how long the leaves are?

I agree, A. multifilifera is not entirely dissimilar, but considerably larger. I have had A. ×leopoldii reach about 15" across before blooming.

[Jrundel95404]

I have visited geminiflora in the wild and found both forms (with or without the white hairs) growing together. Seed batches are also variable

[agavegreg]

Wait. How can you tell how long the leaves are?

Because I am an experienced nurseryman as well as a botanist.

I've grown several specimens of Agave 'Leopldii' and the leaves would be more uniform and shorter relative to the pot size. I'm guessing the plant is in at least a 4-inch pot. Also, the marginal filifers are not quite right. I still would like to know if the leaves are stiff or have some give to them when brushed sideways before passing judgement on whether it is A. geminiflora or A. multifilifera. A. geminiflora can have a lot of marginal filifers or none at all.

[funkmaster]

The geminiflora in the first picture is 22" across, and is in a 7.5" pot. The plant in the second picture is 18" across and is in a 9" pot.

[funkmaster]

And the leaves on both plants have very similar flexibility when I brush my hand through them. They move freely when hit with my hand, but have some resistance. Hard to describe, but it feels good brushing back and forth! The plant in the second picture has leaves that are individually stiffer and not as bendable as the plant in the first picture, which move sort of like stiff cooked spaghetti, which is maybe why plants I have seen like this have been called "Spaghetti Strap".

[agavegreg]

I'm still thinking the second plant is A. multifilifera which does tend to have flatter leaves. If you push in from the tip, does the terminal spine jab you more on the second plant than on the first plant? A. geminiflora leaves will have some give relatively easily when pushed that way while A. multifilifera will not bend very easily.

[funkmaster]

The leaves bend easily. I went and tried to bend a bunch of my other thin leaf plants, and none really had any flexibility like the geminiflora, or the plant in the second picture. If what you say is correct, then this is probably geminiflora too, and just a very different leaf form?

[Gee.S]

I have mulitfilifera, and it will definitely poke you.

[agavegreg]

The leaves bend easily. I went and tried to bend a bunch of my other thin leaf plants, and none really had any flexibility like the geminiflora, or the plant in the second picture. If what you say is correct, then this is probably geminiflora too, and just a very different leaf form?

Then that would be A. geminiflora.

[funkmaster]

It is interesting that these two geminiflora plants are so different. The leaves of the second plant are wide and flat with all the hairs, making it look like multifilifera or x leopoldii, but very long (about 8" each leaf) and while it will poke nicely, it will bend the whole time it is poking so it won't penetrate easily. Just like the first plant, which has leaves that are almost perfectly round in cross-section and about 11" long. Is "Spaghetti Strap" a real variant of geminiflora, or is that just something that some sellers have made up? I can see the first picture plant being called that, but certainly not the second.

[Gee.S]

I agree with Greg that it isn't ×leopoldii, it's too large, and suspect his original assessment was also correct, that it may be A. multifilifera.

Probably doesn't help much, but here is mine. It's about 30" across. Leaves are pretty flexible, and it will poke you, but I doubt it could draw blood.

A. multifilifera

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